The Other Side

We wanted to create “The Other Side” to facilitate conversations about things that matter with people who may see things differently than most of us. That means you will probably disagree with something that you read. Please know that it is not our intention to use this space for a theological discussion, but rather a relational one, helping all of us move forward in developing authentic friendships with people we might not normally seek out. We trust your ability to search the Scriptures on this issue for yourself should you feel the need to. This section exists to allow those who normally do not have a voice in these conversations to share their side of the story.

Since this blog is centered on the theme of villains, we find it ironic to be interviewing two of the nicest people we know. Julie and Shana are some of our best friends in Los Angeles. They let me (David) stay with them after I had surgery on my arm right after I moved here and didn’t know anyone else. Julie has a job so cool that I literally cannot say what it is (awesome, I know) and Shana is in school to become a mortician. Be glad there are great people like her to do a job most of us would hate to do. They have a poodle named Poe, love to travel, and enjoy great literature. They also happen to be a couple. 



Here’s the other side.


Fringe: Sexuality can be a defining characteristic of a person. As a gay couple, how do you want to be defined? Do you feel there are other things that are more important in the aspect of who you are?


Julie: I think that being gay is just a part of who I am. Being half-Sicilian is part of who I am, being an American is part of who I am, but those are just parts that make up who I am as a person. There’s not one defining characteristic that says “that’s me,” or at least I would hope not. I would hope that each person is more complex than just whatever label we decide to stick on them. That’s definitely not the first thing that I would use to describe myself, but it is part of who I am.


Shana: I would hope it’s one of the least interesting things about me. I write, I paint, I hope I’m a good partner, a good daughter, a good sister, a good citizen, but I hope that’s way down the list of what people would think when they see me.

Fringe: What is the main message that you get from Christians towards being gay or the gay community in general?


Julie: (laughs) They don’t like us very much. It’s an across the board x-ing out that says “we’re not going to validate you at all.”


Shana: It feels completely opposite of everything we were taught to believe, and that’s why it’s like a slap in the face every time we hear it. That’s not what I know of Christianity. All I know is love and acceptance, and it’s completely opposite. Even if you do believe that we are someone to be changed, I don’t know how you would go at it from that standpoint.

Fringe: From conversations that we’ve had, it’s obvious that wrestling with this issue is a deeply painful and emotional process and experience. Traditionally we (Christians) have a horrible track record of being great friends to people who are going through this. What are things that we can do, even those of us who come from a perspective that causes us to disagree with the end result, to be great friends to someone in the middle of this situation?


Julie: Just knowing that when your friend in coming to you with this, in a very real sense this burden, that they’ve struggled with and they finally get to the point that they want to tell you, please realize the amount of trust that they are putting in you as a friend. They know full well that you could just turn around and reject them right then and there. Just try to take a step back before reacting realizing that person is still the same person and even though you’re just now finding out, they were gay before they told you, and you were still friends. Just knowing this little tid-bit of information that you don’t agree with shouldn’t nullify the friendship you’ve built up until that point.


Shana: I agree, if you can just show love, that’s what they really need in that moment.

Fringe: Sometimes that moment doesn’t go well. We’ll talk about one side first, and then about the other. If we have a friend or family member who has almost an angry outburst when they come out, can you talk a little bit about where that person is coming from? Is it real anger, or is it motivated by fear?


Julie: I think it could be a little bit of both, but probably mostly out of fear, almost like a preemptive strike. I guess you’re anticipating that they are going to abandon you anyway so you try to push them away so that it doesn’t hurt as much. What people need to realize is that everyone has to go through the process, even the person who’s being told. I guess I’m realizing as I’m older now that I struggled with it, came to my conclusion, and then shared with people. So now that person that I just shared with has to go through the same process that I went through. As the gay person you’re hoping that it’s going to be instantaneous, but it may not be. It may take time, and it may never happen. It’s just hard when you’re the person who’s bearing your soul to someone and you get that rejection. We need to realize that everyone needs time, and if someone never chooses to accept you, then that’s something you have to deal with.

Fringe: Coming at it from the other side now, what if we have a friend or family member who came out and, looking back on it, we didn’t handle it in the best way? Let’s say that we spoke from an adrenaline-filled instinctual place and said things we now regret, and to some degree, have severed a relationship.
Do you have any advice or steps toward reconciling those relationships?


Shana: When you are on the hurt side, you appreciate any sort of reaching out. Even just acknowledging that what you said may have been rash or harsh makes a big difference.


Julie: I don’t think it’s ever too late to offer an apology for a wrong that you’ve committed, now matter how much time has passed, especially if your intention is to try to rebuild that relationship. I think the first step is just owning up to the fact that you didn’t handle it in the best way.


Shana: And that’s hard to do for anyone, on any issue, let alone something as deep as this.

Fringe: Do you have anything that you would like to say to people who have villainized you in the past? Or just to people in general to say “This is who I am.”


Julie: Umm…treat others as you would want to be treated (laughs)


Fringe: Hey! That sounds like a Bible verse…


Julie: I mean we’re all humans, we all make mistakes, we’re all going to mess up, but we all have this deep capacity to love, and I think that we forget that sometimes. 


Shana: All the time people ask “Why are we here?” “What’s our purpose?” I think that ultimately it’s simply just to learn how to love at the deepest, most human level. It’s really the easier thing to do, to not see people as “us” and “them,” but to reach out and try to break down those social filters that we all have.


Julie: I think we spend much more energy on hating someone because it means we always have to be thinking of reasons, and if someone gives us a reason not to, then we have to try to restructure our framework as to why we don’t get along. I think it’s just so draining to try to maintain dislike for someone and it’s so much easier to love someone. Why we pick hate over love so often makes no sense to me.


Shana: Anthropologists and theologists and sociologists would all have different answers as to why we do that, but we do. We like to label people, and it doesn’t serve any purpose but to build walls and make it harder to love people and have a meaningful relationship.

Fringe: I know it’s a lot easier to identify brokenness and flaw and where we’ve gone wrong, but what would you say to draw greatness and beauty out of us? Growing up around Christianity, what are the things that most resonate with you that those of us who have hope for this thing called the Church can do? Where would you lead us to in terms of having these kinds of relationships with people?


Julie: I think love and tolerance are two of the keys. It’s ok to disagree with someone, but that doesn’t mean that you have to vilify them.

Shana: I think not making a judgment on a person’s relationship with God before you know them. You never know what’s going on in their heart, or what they’ve gone through. It’s just harmful I think to do that as a Christian, because doesn’t the Bible say something about being a stumbling block to other people? It makes people react and want to turn away from God because they think “that’s not what I know” or that you’re a hypocrite. They don’t want anything to do with faith anymore, and I think that’s harmful.


Julie: I know so many gay people who have turned their back to the church because they feel the church has turned their back to them, so why go someplace where they’re not welcome? It’s a defense mechanism so that I don’t get hurt to say “that’s not for me anymore,” but it doesn’t have to be that way.

To read the rest of the interview, feel free to check out the complete transcript as well as the audio file on our website, www.fringemag.blogspot.com.




^Fringe would like to thank Julie and Shana for sharing their story in such a public forum. We deeply value your time and friendship.